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May 16 2017 @ 02:43 pm
TWP: 104 The Pretender & 105  
The Pretender
The York princesses are strategically married off to strengthen the Tudor cause. When King Henry finds himself back on the battlefield to protect his reign, Lizzie learns that the threats they face may be closer to home.

  1. I feel bad for the Duchess of Burgundy but her blaming the Tudors for Mary's death which honestly makes no sense because it seems she was a victim of her own need to beat Lord Strange. How did you feel about the Duchess's plot to plant a fake Teddy on the throne? Sending him off to fight?

  2. There is something seriously wrong with a marriage if you have your mother in the "Queen's" room (for better access) and not your wife. The whole Margaret walking in on them when they start to get intimate was just so crazy.

  3. Margaret's jealousy over Jasper's possible attraction to another woman strikes me as a little nuts considering she's married to someone else. What did you think of Jasper wanting her to divorce and marry him? Any thoughts on Margaret arranging a marriage for Jasper?

  4. How much did you love Lizzie not getting her way with marriages and then deciding Jasper needed to marry? Oh the revenge of Lizzie.

  5. One could understand on some level Elizabeth Woodville's desire for her son (Richard who survived) to be on the throne however I see little difference in her daughter and later grandchild.

  6. The Duchesses plot falls apart when her army is routed and the faux Teddy is captured. What did you think of Henry's mercy for the boy?

  7. Lizzie and Henry fight after she returns from seeing her mother. She even gets the Queens rooms. Lizzie confesses to Henry that he and Arthur are all she has and she is a Tudor now. Do you believe Lizzie is turning away from her mother's plots towards Henry?

  8. How did you feel about Maggie's marriage and the man whom she married?


Traitors
Lizzie must deal with her mother's defiant defense of the York cause, while the appearance of a boy in Burgundy claiming to be a young prince threatens to further destabalize King Henry's rule.

  1. I'm not loving the huge time jumps because they feel like you've missed something big but I get they are trying to tell a story that takes place over decades.

  2. We get to see and seemingly happy Maggie off in Wales with her son and husband. I think in the entire series I feel the most for Maggie who is basically a pawn in the royal games and all she wants is to be with those she loves. Then she's sent ot Burgundy with instructions to find the boy a fraud. It is terribly sad to see that Maggie believes it is Richard but is stuck lying to the King.

  3. Do you have a character you feel the most compassion for?

  4. Now the Duchess is claiming to have Richard the York boy who the series leads us to believe is the same boy from the first episode. The show wants us to believe this boy/man is Richard of York.

  5. Do you think Lizzie wants little Henry enobled as Duke of York to secure the thrown or to prove she's loyal? When speaking to her mother she claims to love Henry but she can't bring herself to tell him she loves him when he asks. Why do you think that is?

  6. At the enoblement Elizabeth shows up to claim that her son is the rightful heir over her grandson and still claims that she loves Lizzie. What do you think of Elizabeth's motives and her machinations?

  7. Margaret confesses to Jasper she ordered the York boys killed in the tower and now is convinced that Elizabeth managed to switch one of the boys with another child. Jasper is horrified and you see his devotion to Margaret fade quickly. He adamately tells her that she murdered children. Margaret continually claims it is God's will. Do you think she truly believes that or does she use that to justify her actions?

  8. Do you think Jasper was going to tell Henry about Margaret's deeds? And do you think Henry would have cared?

  9. What did you think of Margaret killing Jasper? Henry's reaction? What does this mean for everyone moving forward? Will Lady Margaret ever be found out? Will her crimes be revealed to Henry that Jasper was trying to tell him?