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April 06 2015 @ 03:38 pm
109: "The Reckoning" Discussion Post  
As always, all book talk that doesn't pertain to the episodes we've seen is a SPOILER. Please use the SPOILER cut below.


Quick Cap:
Jamie learns Randall is the one who committed the murder he is blamed for which will do him no good in clearing his name. Willie rides up with new of Claire's capture. Jamie saves Claire from a very saddistic Black Jack Randall who is about to make good on all those threats to rape her when Jamie comes through the window. Jamie tricks BJR with an unloaded pistol and then knocks BJR out to save Claire. They flee Fort William by jumping off the outer wall into water.

On the side of the road, Jamie and Claire have a knockdown drag out but Jamie quickly realizes things are getting out of hand and tells her how scared he was to hear her scream. Claire apologizes for not listening to him and he apologizes for the things he said. When they arrive at the tavern to rendevous with Dougal, Claire realizes the men are angry with her and hopes they will forgive her. Murtagh tells Jamie Claire doesn't understand what she did and Jamie realizes he'd going to have to meet out justice 18th century style. Jamie joins Claire upstairs where Jamie is supposed to give her a good swatting but she fights like the dickens and even kicks him in the face BUTT in the end she gets her swats... and Jamie realizes that is going to put a wrench in happily ever after.

Back and Leoch Jamie gets in the middle of Castle politics when Colum takes the gold meant for the Jacobites effectively make the clan divide. Colum takes Jamie's advice and gives the gold to Dougal while bidding his time about what side to take in the Jacobite Cause. And if that wasn't rocky enough, Laoghaire is rather upset at Jamie's wedded status and apparently leaves a ill omen under Jamie and Claire's bed. But Jamie hasn't been sleeping in that bed with a rather angry Claire so to remedy that he makes her a pledge and she rocks his world... but not in bed... on the floor.

Discussion Points:

  1. Let's just get too it. What did you think of Claire's punishment?

  2. Talk about a nasty fight! What did you think of Claire's POV and Jamie's POV in that fight?

  3. Did you like that the episode was from Jamie's POV?

  4. Were you stunned that Dougal just came out and said he fathered Hamish?

  5. What did you think of Jamie's influence in the political climate of the McKenzie Clan?

  6. What did you think of Laoghaire (Leery) in this episode? The ill omen under the bed?

Feel free to pose anything else you wish to discuss from this episode or previous episodes. No spoilers please!

Outlander 109: The Reckoning Playlist:
Any behind the scenes footage will be added to this playlist. So far I only have trailers.



Next Week On Outlander:


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wings128: Outlander!wallwings128 on April 7th, 2015 12:08 am (UTC)
Let's just get too it. What did you think of Claire's punishment?
*takes a breath* Right.
- This is filmed in the time period of the 1700s and this is the way things were in that time period. It is ridiculous to place moral guidelines and righteous indignation on an event that was common place in that era. We all agree that it is not appropriate form of punishment, sets women as objects and property rather than people with their own minds and the right to be treated as equals, etc etc. But this is the story, this is the world into which Claire has fallen, this the world that Jamie has been raised in, the example he's been shown, not just by his father, but society at large. In this era, this was every day life for some women.

This scene, both in the book, and the show, is an important and pivotal moment in Jamie and Claire's relationship and demonstrates so viscerally the difference between their timezones, upbringings, expectations, realizations, and the path they need to take to move forward and ultimate become closer and understand each other more fully.

We should feel uncomfortable, embarrassed, angry, and have our eyes opened, because it reminds us of how far we have come. How much the women before us have gone through so that we can have the lives we do.

It is important to keep context. Should it have been excluded simply because it is a woman being beaten, when we see Jamie having his back flayed for endless minutes in sickeningly graphic detail? No. It should not. It adheres to the integrity of Diana's story, and to the characters, and the time in which they are immersed.

It was fantastically acted, lit, and filmed. An excellent job all round and I absolutely felt uncomfortable, just as I did with the flogging. There is no denying that we were in the eighteenth century. And it's a case of the old saying "blessed are those who do not see", for knowing that Claire gets spanked and actually seeing the reality on screen, is realising it's so very much more than three insignificant words.

Talk about a nasty fight! What did you think of Claire's POV and Jamie's POV in that fight?
This show doesn't cut corners. It doesn't beautify what is ugly, what is heartbreaking, what keeps you on the edge of your seat. Claire's swearing hit out of the blue with the shock value they deserved for both Jamie and the audience I think. If this was one of Cait's audition scenes, then there could be no doubt of her getting the role. Such sparks and chemistry! A dance, a tangle of present and 18th century beliefs, love and lust, hope and expectation, disappointment and realisation, fighting it out for supremacy. We're really getting down to the bones of what a marriage is and will be. I liked it very much.

Continued in part two because LJ doesn't like long replies :/

Jill aka Jo: Hug: Stock drawing on fingerssireesanwar on April 7th, 2015 11:50 pm (UTC)
I think so too. It perfectly displays the differences between 1743 and 1945. And I'm glad you just aren't saying it is abuse like so many others. It isn't the same because in context it is being punished from a crime against Clan. It isn't about Jamie just wanting to hurt her.

It is shocking but in some regards I almost wish there were still punishments that were similar... they hurt but weren't permanent. I'm not saying we need to go around spanking men and women but some people just seem to need something. *wink*

On an off point, I actually think this is what people think of when they think of spanking in general and I for one don't think that is actually the case.


I agree. It really does cut to the heart of it, no? I mean they were tiptoeing around each other before. Just being polite and nice and now they are ripping each other opened to see if they could work. They are being honest and just saying what they think hoping they can get the honesty out of the way and really feel more comfortable with each other. I loved it.
wings128: Outlander!logowings128 on April 8th, 2015 09:08 am (UTC)
1. Exactly.

4. All praise to the production crew of this show, and having Diana so intimately involved with the creation is definitely playing a role in lifting this relationship from the page. Visceral, vibrant, passionate, and real. Can't wait to see the rest of the eps. :)
Jill aka Josireesanwar on April 8th, 2015 10:14 pm (UTC)
I know. Is it Saturday already? I really want to watch the show now!
raktajinosraktajinos on April 8th, 2015 05:37 am (UTC)
I'm usually *always* against the gendered-violence as "historical" argument - I won't get into it here, but the short of it is that I think that excuse is just an excuse.

However, I did think that this episode handled it really honestly and showed that that behaviour was actual a result of the society in which Jaime was raised. He wasn't doing it out of cruelty or to be vicious, he was doing it because he was taught it was a suitable punishment for the crime. So I was actually okay with it's inclusion as a story element.
wings128: Outlander!logowings128 on April 8th, 2015 07:22 am (UTC)
I did think that this episode handled it really honestly and showed that that behaviour was actual a result of the society in which Jaime was raised. He wasn't doing it out of cruelty or to be vicious, he was doing it because he was taught it was a suitable punishment for the crime.
This is a shortened version of what I said above.
Jill aka Jo: Movie: Pascal upsidedownsireesanwar on April 8th, 2015 10:19 pm (UTC)
I only think gender came into the thought process when choosing the type of punishment. Anyone would have been punished for what Claire did but Claire was given, what they consider, a light punishment.

But honestly, even now I'd rather get Claire's punishment then jail time or a fine nowadays.