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May 04 2015 @ 11:53 am
113: "The Watch" Discussion Post  

All book talk that doesn't pertain to the episodes we've seen is a SPOILER.
Please use the SPOILER cut below.

A Dhia! This episode was a thing of beauty. There are some really different opinions on this episode. Some people don't like it and really don't appreciate the differences from the book while other (I'd be in this category) love the episode immensely and find the Toni Graphia's writing are on level with Diana herself! While everything wasn't exactly like the book Jenny and Claire's budding sisterhood is wonderfully reflected while the lasting brotherhood between Jamie and Ian is emphasised for the viewers who don't know about the relationship they have in the books.

Maybe Horrocks wasn't in the books blackmailing Jamie or selling The Watch out to the English but he would have don't you think? In the book, it was McNab who sold Jamie out but even when I read that in the book I didn't like it. I mean it worked for the purpose it was meant for but wouldn't a jerk like McNab still have more loyalty to his Laird than the English?

Let's not knock Diana who is a master at what she does but I felt like this senario would have come from Diana had she thought about it.

So I ask, how many Kilts would you give this episode?
Poll #2010140 Rate The Watch

How many Kilts would you give The Watch?

Mean: 3.86 Median: 4 Std. Dev 0.64
1
0(0.0%)
2
0(0.0%)
3
2(28.6%)
4
4(57.1%)
5
1(14.3%)


Discussion Points:

  1. How did you feel about Ian letting the Watch into Lallybroch and paying them? Was it weak of him?

  2. How did you feel about Jamie's decision to pay Horrocks? And Ian being the one to kill Horrocks?

  3. What did you think of Jenny and Claire's relationship and all the talk about child bearing?

  4. What did you think of the scene where Claire tells Jamie she's let him down because she doesn't think she can give him the children he wishes to fill Lallybroch with?

  5. What did you think of the Watch and McCory? Was McCory the enemy Jamie thought him to be or is he what Jamie could become without Claire?

  6. Book fans, what did you think in about the differences from the book to the show?


Feel free to pose anything else you wish to discuss from this episode or previous episodes. No spoilers please!

Noteworthy:
I hope everyone is enjoying the discussions. You opinions are always welcome and remember just because we disagree doesn't mean we don't love talking about it!

Great article 1 + 1 = 2…How Math Made Me Love Outlander Starz Episode 13.

A few contests to enter to win a trip to Scotland:Amazon seems to already be on the Outlander band wagon. You can go HERE to see information on the second half of the season as they already have it listed for pre-orders.

The Watch Video Playlist:
Any behind the scenes footage will be added to this playlist.


Next Week On Outlander:


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Jo Ann: Out: Lallybrookyeuxdebleu on May 5th, 2015 05:39 am (UTC)
1. How did you feel about Ian letting the Watch into Lallybroch and paying them? Was it weak of him?

Well, seems to me it was the lesser of two evils and he really didn't have a choice. Had Ian refused, The Watch would likely have sacked Lollybroch and stolen everything of value.

2. How did you feel about Jamie's decision to pay Horrocks? And Ian being the one to kill Horrocks?

I thought it was pretty cool, especially Ian stabbing Horrocks, but it made for a totally different story than what Diana had written.

3. What did you think of Jenny and Claire's relationship and all the talk about child bearing?

Fascinating. I absolutely LOVE Laura Donnelly. BTW, I don't know if you watch "Call the Midwife" on PBS, but Nell Hudson was in it last night in a major guest role. She was very good.

4. What did you think of the scene where Claire tells Jamie she's let him down because she doesn't think she can give him the children he wishes to fill Lallybroch with?

Was that in the book? I don't recall that it was. The scene was OK, but unnecessary, IMO.

5. What did you think of the Watch and McCory? Was McCory the enemy Jamie thought him to be or is he what Jamie could become without Claire?

Probably both.

6. Book fans, what did you think in about the differences from the book to the show?

I didn't like it on first viewing, but now I am more accepting. The TV adaptation doesn't have to follow the book, it IS a different medium after all. Having said that, I don't think the change was called for.
_celebrian_celebrian on May 5th, 2015 01:38 pm (UTC)
"4. What did you think of the scene where Claire tells Jamie she's let him down because she doesn't think she can give him the children he wishes to fill Lallybroch with?

Was that in the book? I don't recall that it was. The scene was OK, but unnecessary, IMO. "

It was in the book, though it was a bit different (can I post book stuff here? because I almost mentioned some of the difference, but then decided against it). I think it was important for the episode because it affects how we see Claire and Jenny's scenes as Jenny describes what it feels like to be pregnant and such with Claire thinking she'll never have that opportunity. And, of course, it has a significant impact on Jamie and Claire's relationship.
ETA Just looked back at the original post and saw the spoiler tags to use so:
[Spoiler (click to open)]in the book, Jamie tells Claire that Geillis had already told him Claire was barren, so he wasn't surprised that Claire said she didn't think she could have children. Claire was surprised that Geillis had told him that.

"6. Book fans, what did you think in about the differences from the book to the show?

I didn't like it on first viewing, but now I am more accepting. The TV adaptation doesn't have to follow the book, it IS a different medium after all. Having said that, I don't think the change was called for."

I actually thought it was a good change. It got them where they were going with Jamie having been betrayed by someone he knew at least a little, but doesn't add some of the complexities that the book had that the show doesn't have time to flesh out. (Once again, I'm avoiding saying book stuff, but I could clarify if I'm allowed, or privately.)
ETA: [Spoiler (click to open)]In the show, Jenny had said very strongly that they could trust their tenants, so it was far simpler not to make McNab the one who betrayed Jamie because then there's the issue of him being untrustworthy despite what Jenny said and then the reaction of the other tenants. Having Jamie (or really the Watch and Jamie by accident) betrayed by an acquaintance who was not a tenant gets to the same point of him in the hands of the redcoats, but in a more straightforward way so they can move on with the story.

Edited at 2015-05-05 04:15 pm (UTC)
Jill aka Josireesanwar on May 7th, 2015 08:30 pm (UTC)
I tend to agree with you about the changes. I loved them. I thought Horrocks coming back made a lot of sense and was more danger than a tenant. I've never liked that McNab would turn over Jamie to the English for interfering (as he saw it). That just always struck me as excessive. I mean it works in the book but I think it would have been odd in the show.

I liked the subtle differences with the Watch in the show and the book. Everything just seemed to flow a lot better for me.
Jill aka Jo: Outlander: Jamie and Claire standing togsireesanwar on May 7th, 2015 08:27 pm (UTC)
So I listened to some podcasts and one was really upset by Ian's choice.... like he was a coward. I think it was incredible brave of Ian to rely on these men and actually befriend them. He is doing what needs to be done for the tenants. Jamie thinks fighting them off would be better but I could see that causing all kinds of trouble in the future.

I thought it was pretty cool, especially Ian stabbing Horrocks, but it made for a totally different story than what Diana had written.

It is true but for me it worked so well. I loved Horrocks actually having a role and I've never been that into McNab giving Jamie up because I doubt he'd turn him into the English even if Jamie interfered in his life. I'm not usually okay with major changes but I liked this one. It made sense and I think Diana could have written that herself.

Fascinating. I absolutely LOVE Laura Donnelly. BTW, I don't know if you watch "Call the Midwife" on PBS, but Nell Hudson was in it last night in a major guest role. She was very good.

I do too. I didn't. I was out of town. I can look for it. It might be on again. Cool. I should so check for that.

Was that in the book? I don't recall that it was. The scene was OK, but unnecessary, IMO.

In the book, it wasn't exactly like this. It happens at the end of chapter 32 after Jenny has Margaret and then Jamie and Claire go to bed. Jamie is the one to mention it and basically says he doesn't know if he could handle her pain.

So the clearly took liberties but I thought it worked out well. It was clearly something Claire was thinking about and she got it out so Jamie could tell her it wouldn't matter.

I didn't like it on first viewing, but now I am more accepting. The TV adaptation doesn't have to follow the book, it IS a different medium after all. Having said that, I don't think the change was called for.
I totally see your point of view but I really liked the changes and thought they made that whole part flow better. I mean Diana is fantastic but I think these writers are too.
Jo Ann: Out: Claire face close ujpyeuxdebleu on May 11th, 2015 02:08 am (UTC)
Call the Midwife airs the show on the PBS website if you want to catch the episode with Nell Hudson.
Jill aka Josireesanwar on May 12th, 2015 11:20 pm (UTC)
I'll check it out! Thanks.
Jo Ann: Logo: Amazonyeuxdebleu on May 5th, 2015 05:44 am (UTC)
I'm glad to see that Amazon has lowered the prices on all the versions of Vol 1. They were ridiculously high. I got the Blu-ray Collectors Edition for $39 from Celtic Crofts. I think I'll wait to buy Vol. 2 until the price comes down.
Jill aka Josireesanwar on May 7th, 2015 08:31 pm (UTC)
I checked Amazon at it is almost $50. That is more than before????
Jo Ann: Out: Jamie eating bannockyeuxdebleu on May 11th, 2015 02:04 am (UTC)
The DVD is $18.09 (originally $38.99) and the Blu-ray is $47.91 (originally $55.00) so it's not more. However, the marketplace sellers have the Blu-ray for $34.99. I got it for $39.00 including shipping from Celtic Croft. I'm going to wait until the show is over before ordering Vol. II to see what the prices are like.
Jill aka Josireesanwar on May 11th, 2015 09:56 pm (UTC)
This weekend it went on sale for $29.99 so I got the Blu-Rays. I'm so excited!
Jo Ann: AG: GIF Jesse does double takeyeuxdebleu on May 14th, 2015 01:39 am (UTC)
Wow! Where did you find the Blu-ray at this price? You said "Blu-rays" plural. Do they also have the second half at that price for pre-order?
Jill aka Josireesanwar on May 19th, 2015 10:50 pm (UTC)
Amazon had a specials weekend. It was amazing. The second half is up for pre-order but not on sale.
Jo Ann: Out: Jamie & Claire staringyeuxdebleu on May 5th, 2015 06:04 am (UTC)
Loved the 1 + 1 = 2 article you linked to. I always read Beth Wesson's blog. She's a wonderful, intuitive writer and I always enjoy what she has to say.
Jill aka Josireesanwar on May 7th, 2015 08:31 pm (UTC)
She's awesome. I loved that article too!