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October 19 2016 @ 12:56 pm
Food for thought  
I was vaguely aware that there has been yet another outbreak of "fan" outrage on social media -- this time over a deleted/edited scene from episode 207 ("Faith"). I saw a few very hurt/angry tweets from Terry Dresbach, so I wasn't too sure what was going on. I don't follow everyone associated with the show, and the few I do follow, well, they are a very teeny fraction of the people I follow on Twitter so more often than not, I miss their tweets. From what I gather, people got very nasty towards Ron D. Moore, using this deleted scene as an excuse to vent all sorts of stuff at him (like the now-getting-really-old lament that there isn't enough "Jamie and Claire" aka sex in season 2, etc.).

Anyway, came across this very thoughtful blog post via Twitter. It's very much worth reading, as are the comments (which isn't something said too often!).
ride_4ever (or Ride_Forever: seen it both ways): TYKride_4ever on October 19th, 2016 09:41 pm (UTC)
Worth reading -- TYK for sharing.
Eumel: srslyeumelkeks on October 20th, 2016 10:14 am (UTC)

I think it comes down to social media being a game changer. Networks rely on fans to do promotion for their shows. Globally and for free. Especially avid fans then become sources other fans flock to for news. Of course this gives the avid fans a certain degree of power and influence. With fandom being a strange bubble and a feedback loop, fans tend to overestimate their influence and to feel entitled to updates and news from the network. But networks cannot go on treating fans, avid or not, solely as bystanders and consumers and simultaneously rely on their volunteering hours of their time to promote the show they are fans of. Showrunners cannot engage with fans only when they happen to love what they've created.

Criticism of season two came from journalists, bloggers and fans alike and there is a difference between pandering to the fans and taking valid criticism seriously. The fans don't run the show and fan entitlement is real. Tumblr needs a reality check because it does not reflect the majority of viewers. But what needs to be resolved is the position of fans that are expected and encouraged to be heavily involved in marketing. The most passionate are not always the most reasonable - qualifications and sanity are not requirements for anyone posting and reblogging interviews and gif sets. But networks can't just shut them out whenever they don't like what is being said and how it is being said. With the fourth wall gone there need to be new rules for actors, showrunners and fans alike.
siobhan63siobhan63 on October 21st, 2016 03:15 pm (UTC)
Outlander is the only TV show that I sort of hang around the fan fringes on -- I don't follow any actors or directors or other people associated with any other show I like. I know it is in a rather unique position because of the books and having built up a die-hard fanbase over the past 20-years or so. I guess only Game of Thrones would come close to that (not counting all the comic-based stuff). I know there have been a few internet meltdowns over some GofT stuff e.g. the Jaime-Cersei rape/not rape scene and the Sansa rape scene, but not sure it got as vehement/nasty as some of these Outlander outrages seem to get.

I have seen some Outlander "fan" stuff that really freaks me out. William Shatner got into a whole thing with the "super shippers" -- the "fans" who not only write fic about Sam and Cait, but actually believe 100% that the two of them are romantically involved and get really ballistic on anyone who dares to suggest that they're not. Also, I saw a quote somewhere (and for the life of me, I've looked but can't find it again) from some higher-up at Starz who reportedly said that he was concerned about some of the Outlander fanbase because of how they react -- that they would prevent the show from growing a new, larger fanbase based on the show because they are so rigid and nasty when things don't follow the books 100%.
Eumel: INTERVENTIONeumelkeks on October 23rd, 2016 05:40 pm (UTC)
William Shatner is no choir boy when it comes to fandom wank and from what I gathered after reading fallout articles in the press - yes, this made the news - his/someone's assistant tried to police and dictate fan interaction in the Outlander fandom. A man telling a fandom full of women how to behave went down super well. There are shippers and real person shippers in every single fandom and apart from a few crazies who take their bad fanart to cons and share their fanfic with the actors, fans are content with being obsessive in their communities. The reason this got toxic is that some people screencapped posts of people they disagree with and then sent it to Shatner and Heughan to get a reaction/condemnation of shippers. Alas, Shatner was only too happy to oblige. It's a petty feud in which social media struck again.
Kaylee Winchester: Outlander The Frasersroguem on October 21st, 2016 11:30 am (UTC)
Thanks for sharing the article.
I hadn't watched the extended scene until now, and while I agree that it should have been left in there are so many things to consider all the way from the writers room to the final product that I'm sure they made the choices they had to.
And I'm always glad when deleted scenes are released for our viewing pleasure, it would have been a pity not to have been allowed to see that version at all.

There are angry trolls in every fandom, and sadly they shout the loudest so in some ways they end up representing the fandom. I think RDM and the entire team behind Outlander are doing a great job. It's impossible to please every fan 100% all the time.
There have been many things from the book that I'm sad didn't make the screen. But these are two very different mediums so it's impossible to include everything.
siobhan63siobhan63 on October 21st, 2016 03:06 pm (UTC)
I remember in the podcast for that episode, Ron saying that at one point, it was about 90 minutes long and they didn't know what to do about that. He talked to the powers that be at Starz and they green-lighted a 90-min episode if it came to that. However, they started working over the scenes again, and did manage to get it down to the 57-58 minute episode that aired.

I totally agree with you that they're doing a great job with the adaptation. I recently reread the first novel, and decided I actually preferred the TV version to the book for that one!
Kaylee Winchester: Outlander The Frasersroguem on October 26th, 2016 10:36 am (UTC)
I kind of remember that being mentioned.
Still think it's odd they cut this scene down, but I'm sure they have their reasons.
Jill aka Jo: V: Rollo fightingsireesanwar on October 26th, 2016 05:49 pm (UTC)
I getting a little sick of these crazed fans. First, I can't believe it matters if Sam and Cait are together or not. I mean if they are, great. But look how that turned out for Twilight. The fans were so obsessed and when they broke up things went bad. It felt like that was true of Vampire Diaries as well. If you want to ship the actors, fine, do it. But you also have to be realistic. Maybe your beliefs about the show and actors is just a fantasy and you have to accept that.

Second, what the hell is wrong with these fans that they can be respectful? I mean are they a fan or not? If you are a fan you better be damn grateful Ron took this on at all. And then if there is something you don't like, voice it respectfully.

Do I wish they'd left the scene in. Sure. But I'm not a mental patient and my whole world doesn't rise and set with Outlander. I can be disappointed and voice it and even tell Ron I kind of wish it got left in. But if that man decided it couldn't be there and that was the choice or no Outlander... I'd say go for it. Cut it.

At some point Ron is going to get fed up by these nuts and not want to do this show. Then the fans will be screwed.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh. This makes me so mad. Part of me wants to harass and bully these crazy fans just like they've done to others but I have morals and standards.
Eumel: the drama lamaeumelkeks on October 27th, 2016 10:54 am (UTC)
Twilight was bonkers but it was great to be on ontd-twatlight at the time, which was full of people who read the series and couldn't believe how bad it was whilst, at the same time, they couldn't stop talking about how bad it was. There were so many excellent gif, stories and interactive discussion posts. I know, I was there. ;) And I remember that the Twilight moms were ruthlessly mocked by some who made it their mission in life to monitor their every move.

There is a similar split in the Outlander fandom, I guess. There are those who ship Jamie/Claire, those who ship Sam/Cait and some that blur the lines. The most active are often but not always the most unhealthily obsessive. Their blogs/tumblr/twitter are stalked by people self-righteously convinced that Sam and Cait are not dating and that shipping is the work of the devil. They are on a personal crusade that is not any less worrisome than constantly tweeting Sam and Cait about their possible-but-officially-denied relationship. And the most outspoken on both sides of the crazy fence are the ones stoking the flames of madness.

In both cases, shipper crazy would never get this level of extreme exposure without other fans desperate to prove them wrong/delusional.
Jill aka Jo: Outlander: Je Suis Prestsireesanwar on November 3rd, 2016 08:53 pm (UTC)
To me that is just the making of a stalker or other crazy person who might do something desperate when they are not validated. It's weird.

Yes, I do believe sane Outlander fans should ignore them completely.