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November 07 2017 @ 04:37 pm
Episode Discuss: 308 First Wife  
Claire returns to Lallybroch with Jamie, where she does not receive quite the reception she was expecting. Unbeknownst to her, Jamie's made some choices in their time apart which come back to haunt them with a vengeance.

Vote for in the episode battle at Season 3 Episode Battle.

Poll #2074621 First Wife Rating

What did you think of First Wife? (5 being perfection)

Mean: 3.60 Median: 4 Std. Dev 0.49

Jill aka Josireesanwar on November 8th, 2017 12:51 am (UTC)
Gosh this episode was good. Even the deviations for the books worked for me.

I loved Claire and Jenny's reunion with the tension and the snide remarks. And Jenny's assertion that the Claire she knew would have scoured the Highlands for Jamie. I love this because Jenny and Claire really became close because Claire was willing to do anything to find Jamie back in The Search.

I didn't think Claire needed to tell Jenny about Frank even in the smallest amount but I think everything would have been explained to Jenny's satisfaction had Claire told Jenny that she'd left for fear of bringing the crown down on them and that she didn't continually search the Highlands because she was pregnant and had to protect hers and Jamie's child. Jenny would totally accept a child as a reason not to endanger herself.

Of course that would raise the question of where said child was and they could say she has her life now. It would leave some loose ends but it would be better than Jenny thinking there was something wrong with this new incarnation of Claire.

It was great to see Ned again but there was something very off with all of that. Everything Jamie said about not turning Laoghaire into the authorities made sense and Claire knew it.

Laoghaire's coming after Claire with the pistol was interesting and like I said a change I didn't mind.

But my absolute love was Jamie telling Claire the reason he married Laoghaire really stemmed from the girls. He wanted to be a father and he loved those girls like they were his own. And if they've only been married 2 years then Jamie waited 18 years to move on. That is impressive Claire. Be jealous but that man held out for 18 years before giving up that he's get you back.

I really like little Joan. She's adorable and I loved that it was easy to suspect she was Jamie's child. I liked Marsali too though you saw less of her.

Young Ian is getting better and better. I love that he insists on calling Claire - Auntie Claire. Adorable.

I was surprised that in all the time Jamie has known the treasure was on the Selkie Island he hadn't told Jenny and Ian which just goes to show there is a lot he's not sharing with them.

Jamie says that he took a sapphire to give to Lord John (or the garrison commander) but he doesn't say why which is in the episode All Debts Paid in that it was to give proof to the tale he told John. Though John clearly wanted to believe he'd throw the treasure into the sea because he could have checked.

Claire confessing she's not sure them being together is right anymore was big but I liked that in the end they talked it out and Jamie kept telling her everything is better now that she's there.

When he tells her about the birds that mate for life and having to kill them both otherwise the mate will mourn itself to death. WOW. I mean Jamie is telling her that it nearly killed him to lose her the first time and it will if she were to go again.

siobhan63: powerpuffmesiobhan63 on November 8th, 2017 11:54 am (UTC)
I was nervous about this episode because I really hated the changes they made back in season 2, episode 208, when they introduced that very stupid sub-plot with Laoghaire. It's the only episode I refuse to re-watch. I have read the producers' reasoning as to why they believed they needed to do what they did in 208, but their explanations aren't really supported by evidence, IMO. But yeah, because I really hated what they did in 208, I had major concerns as to how this part of the story would unfold in season 3.

Consequently, I was quite relieved, on the whole. There were again deviations from the source material, but as you said, none that really mattered. And the key bits from the book were there. I think they did manage to rescue the Laoghaire plot-line, but I still maintain that there wasn't really any need to make the changes they did back in 208.

I also don't really understand why they felt such a need to reveal to viewers in previous episodes that Jamie had remarried. Again, the producers have said things along the lines of "wanting to soften the blow" for viewers, and "preparing them" so it wouldn't be too much of a shock, etc. Why? That was one of the best bits in the book -- it was a 100% TOTAL ABSOLUTE shock for both Claire and the reader when the second marriage was revealed -- never mind that it was to Laoghaire. The reader was completely dragged into Claire's shock, hurt, anger, etc. because the reader felt the same way. With all the hints they dropped in the previous episodes (the only thing they didn't reveal was who wife no. 2 was), everyone was in on the secret except Claire -- an it just sort of felt a bit meaner in some ways, at least to me. Like we were all standing around laughing and pointing at Claire saying "haha! he's married and you didn't know that! we knew it!"

So I still wish 100% that they had not made the changes that they did back in 208, but given that they did, they did manage to recoup the situation fairly well. But it did lack the HUGE emotional whump that the book version of events had. To be honest, for book readers at least, it wasn't that emotional at all (at least, not for me). I've heard from one show-only fan, and she was surprised by the Laoghaire reveal, but also wished they'd not basically ruined the whole 2nd marriage surprise by telling everyone (except Claire) that Jamie had remarried.

The acting all around was stellar. We didn't see much of her, but Lauren Lyle is going to be a great Marsali. Really looking forward to seeing her and Fergus together.

One thing I thought a bit odd -- when Young Ian was heading back down with the box, before he was intercepted and abducted, he holds the box up to show Jamie that he managed to find it. How on earth was he planning to swim back with the box? Moot point since he got nabbed, but seriously -- did he have a bag with him to put the jewels and coins in for transport? If yes, why not dump the contents of the box into the bag up where he found it rather than haul the whole box down with him?

Also, in the books, Jamie had managed to get word to Lallybroch about the existence of the treasure, and Ian and Jenny had been dipping into it when times got really difficult to help keep the farm afloat. Don't know why they needed to change that bit of the story either.

So on the whole, good rescue of a terrible change back in 208, but still could have been way better had they not made that stupid change in the first place.
Jill aka Josireesanwar on November 16th, 2017 10:14 pm (UTC)
I hear you. Jamie never needed to know why Claire hated L. Of course, I always thought it strange she never said anything but in the books it isn't even positive she tried to kill Claire. In the show it is. But had Jamie not known then him marrying her wouldn't be such a huge deal for the reasons Claire sites.

If you re-read the book some of Jamie's dialogue and what he says kind of elludes to him having a secret but when you are just reading it for the first time you are totally surprised and when Jamie is ignorant of L's part in the witch trial it makes sense. So you are right.

I love Lauren Lyle as Marsali. She's awesome and I can't wait to see Marsali get to know Claire more. I bet she starts to see another side to her mother's story.

So Ron Moore jokingly said Ian has good teeth. But I would guess Jamie gave him a bag or something to put the stuff in. That is the only thing I can think of.

I like in the book that Ian and Jenny have used it when needed. It makes sense. I wish they hadn't changed that too.

Despite the deviation of the L storyline everything was done pretty well and I'm actually rather glad Claire didn't run off to the stones. I like that L was there to shoot her and not Jamie.
Kaylee Winchesterroguem on November 9th, 2017 10:30 am (UTC)
I ended up enjoying the episode. And I liked that they put focus on Jamie marrying Laoghaire mostly so he could be a father to her girls.

I still think they made the wrong call back in season 2 of letting Jamie know that Laoghaire was part of the witch trial, I think the impact of that coming out now would have been bigger.

I agree with siobhan63 that they should have kept the whole second wife thing hidden from the audience, so we would all be part of the shock when it's all finally revealed. I felt like we were really part of Claire's feelings in the book, so I feel it's a pity they dampened the blow there.
siobhan63: powerpuffmesiobhan63 on November 9th, 2017 11:49 am (UTC)
I still think they made the wrong call back in season 2 of letting Jamie know that Laoghaire was part of the witch trial

That's my whole beef with the season 2 change -- it's not at all clear in episode 111 that Jamie even sees Laoghaire at the trial when he rushes in to save Claire, and even if he did spot her, so what? How do you go from seeing someone in the crowd to KNOWING 100% that they were the person who set up your wife? Claire never tells him (on screen), so for the producers to claim that Jamie definitely KNEW that Laoghaire was behind Claire's arrest just doesn't hold up at all.
Jill aka Josireesanwar on November 16th, 2017 10:07 pm (UTC)
Claire told him when they saw Laoghaire at Beaufort Castle when they went to Simon Fraser. She tells Jamie L was involved and he's pissed but by they end she asks Jamie to thank her for her help with Young Simon. Still a really dumb excuse. It would be better if Jamie didn't know and just moved on.
Kaylee Winchester: Outlander-Claireroguem on November 21st, 2017 10:14 am (UTC)
Jill aka Josireesanwar on November 16th, 2017 10:05 pm (UTC)
I agree.